Re: Dilemma

Hey, Nora:  ;-)

Here's the scoop - based on my experience.  May not be what you want to 
hear but at least you'll have another perspective...and IANAA.

At 04:55 PM 05/04/2001 -0700, N S wrote:
>Hello list,
>
>Due to business and personal differences, I've decided
>to leave the MIS firm I work for.

So you were formally an employee of that firm or and independent 
contractor?  The answer makes a difference in this situation.


>Since its lead designer is departing, this has angered
>my partner. To backtrack a bit, I picked up the
>company when it was almost dead and revived it through
>my work.

None of which really has anything to do with the issues at 
hand.....  :-(  In business all to often we look at how someone should 
react based on feelings or "what I would do" - neither of which are 
necessarily a basis for sound business decisions.

>  I don't have any type of agreement with the
>company but we do have a contract with the clients and
>there is nothing that specifies I can't link to them.

Why would any company's contract cover what employees would or wouldn't do 
if they quit?  The contract probably doesn't cover anything to do with you 
- nor should it as the contract is between the company and their customers.

The devil is in the details which both of our resident attorneys will pipe 
in to confirm.  The contract must have been between the firm and the client 
not you and the client right?  Contract/Company/Client - you worked as an 
employee and that was your job (that you were paid for, right?), hence the 
work is most likely owned by the company - not you.

>Anyway, my partner is threatening to sue me if I list,
>display, and link from my portfolio to the sites I
>have created.  I did it anyway and even gave a brief
>description how they were done.

Yikes! :-0   If they are serious, until the legal details are ironed out I 
wouldn't post their work......  Put the shoe on the other foot.  What if 
you were a company owner and someone quit and then wanted to use the work 
you had paid her to create as a way of attracting new clients?  If it were 
an amicable departure that may not have been a problem....otherwise, one 
would not be inclined to assist an x-employee by allowing them to use the 
work that they don't own and were paid to create to move on....


>Is this ethical? Is this right?

Not if you were that company's //employee// - without their permission you 
probably shouldn't display /their/ work - especially if they warned you not 
to. Ethics are subjective.  Some folks will always do things I wouldn't 
dare and they consider themselves ethical.  I think this is more of a legal 
issue.

>How much trouble can I
>get into?

Depends on how motivated they are to go after you...  I don't see what the 
big deal is unless there is bad blood here that isn't being detailed.  If 
they are mad at your departure they may be hell bent on giving you a hard time.

>What do you use in your personal portfolios?

This doesn't sound like your "personal" portfolio - this sounds like it is 
this company's portfolio created by employees of the company...

>Has anyone been in a similar situation?

No because our contract states I will be showing our works in our portfolio 
and that our independent contractors can do the same.  But then again, I am 
the owner of the company and set the rules. ;-)

However, if an employee abruptly left us and there were bad vibes, I may 
not be so inclined to allow them to portray the work that I paid them to 
create as an employee of my company.   Our employment agreements cover this 
issue, as well as no competes, non-disclosure - yada, yada, yada - that any 
work done by employees is owned by the company.  So, if it is owned by my 
company I can dictate how it is used or not.

>I am trying not to feel guilty here.

I understand - but in business (and life) always follow your gut instinct - 
it's never wrong.  I think we all will attest to knowing what our 
gut/conscience tells us to do or not - it's those that have the intestinal 
fortitude to follow that instinct because many times it is not the easy 
thing to do that end up making the right decisions.

Take your lumps, learn from this situation and move on.  If you want to 
start your own gig fine - but if you don't have permission to post stuff 
you made while an employee of that company - don't.  Work on getting new 
customers and creating your own personal portfolio of work that you 
garnered and attained on your own.

If they are insistent on you not linking, give prospective clients a hand 
out detailing the projects you were involved in while under the employ of 
the firm.

>It is not my
>intent to steal the clients.

Your previous employer may not know or agree with that, especially if you 
left on bad terms.  Based on your post we don't have all the details or 
both sides of the story.  If they are threatening to sue, and you have no 
permission or agreement allowing you to post this work - which they may 
formally own, they can make your life hell.

>But designing sites is my
>lifeblood and without a portfolio, I don't stand a
>chance!

We all run into crappy situations that hopefully we learn by.  This might 
be one of those character building situations that albeit unpleasant can 
set the ground work for your future decisions.  Again, I know this is 
probably not what you wanted to hear but not knowing the laws where you are 
at or the whole story, it is difficult to say "Yes, Nora, link them in your 
site, it's your work after all!" when it may not legally be "yours".

If you are going to start your own Business, which is really what this list 
is about, this situation should make a point of letting you know what to 
include in your future legal documents so that you can avoid this situation 
from happening again.

Either way I sincerely hope things out for you......  ;-)

/j

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