Re: Bobby and link separators

Hi Lois

In fact, the way Rob has structured the links means that in this case,
the Bobby report was right.  The square brackets he is using to separate
the links are actually included within the hyperlink, and there is
nothing but white space between each hyperlink.  The square brackets
should be removed from the hyperlink and placed between each link to
work properly as a separator.  So instead of:

<.a href="url">[link text]<./a> <.a href=...etc

it would be more proper to have:

[<.a href="url">link text<./a>] [<.a href=...etc

(I originally replied to this point over in HWG Business where Rob first
posted).

Did that make any sense?  Hope so! :-)

Regards,
Donna
--
Donna Smillie
RNIB, UK

----- Original Message -----
From: Lois Wakeman <lois(at)lois.co.uk>
To: <hwg-techniques(at)mail.hwg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Bobby and link separators


> Hi Rob,
>
> I took the same thing up with Bobby before Watchfire bought it - below
is an
> extract of the conversation in case it helps (in reverse order).
>
> (I fixed similar problems by using the @import trick to hide
separators in
> CSS compliant browsers, and showing a visible pipe character for
non-CSS
> ones.)
>
> Lois Wakeman
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://lois.co.uk
> http://siteusability.com
> http://communicationarts.co.uk
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> them: Hi - Brian's away but I'll pick this up.
>
> I think you raise a good point, an image with alt text that is not
purely
> spacer characters should be counted as a valid link separator. It's an
> oversight that we didn't catch that earlier, and we'll schedule that
change.
> Meanwhile, I think you can go ahead with your preferred design, even
though
> Bobby flags it at the moment.
>
> Michael Cooper
> Bobby Project Manager, CAST, Inc.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> me:
> >Our understanding is also that adjacent image links need separation,
> however an image should separate regular links.<
>
> Yes - I think we are saying the same thing, which is why I was
surprised
> that code like this:
>
> <.a title="writing services " href="services.html">services<./a> <.img
> src="images/dot.gif" width="9" height="11" alt="|" border="0" /> <.a
> title="typical costs" href="costs.html">costs<./a>
>
> prevents level 3 compliance on the basis of directly adjacent links.
Perhaps
> I have misunderstood either the Bobby message or what you were saying?
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> them: We agree that changes should not be made just to pass an
automatic
> checker, even for optional Priority 3 items such as link separators.
>
> Separators which are hidden by CSS appear to be ok since most
assistive
> browsers don't implement CSS and thus will 'see' the hidden item.  Our
> interpretation of the guidelines is that 'new-lines' are not
acceptable
> separators.  Images may have null alt="" to avoid their alt text being
read.
>
> Our understanding is also that adjacent image links need separation,
however
> an image should separate regular links.
>
> Brian Matheny
> Bobby Technical Support, CAST, Inc.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> me:
> I have a couple of questions about link separators. From a page that I
> validated with Bobby, it seems that new paragraphs do not count as
> separators between adjacent links. I can improve this by putting
CSS-hidden
> elements in the page: is this acceptable?
>
> I was more puzzled why images with ALT texts, in a navigation bar, do
not
> count. I would appreciate guidance here, because I think that by
adding,
> say, a hidden span to duplicate the alternate for the image for
non-CSS
> browsers, I will actually decrease accessibility, because, I imagine,
you'd
> hear <.link> <.alt text> <.hidden span text> <.link> - more noise
between
> the links, surely?
>
> I am loathe to do things just to get the Bobby logo if I then make
things
> more difficult for the people I am trying to help! Guidance would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>

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