Re: Frames problem

by "Kehvan M. Zydhek" <kehvan(at)>

 Date:  Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:40:17 -0700
 To:  "Robyn Prentice" <rjp(at)>,
"'tim booker'" <timbooker(at)>,
"Martha Liles" <martha(at)>,
 References:  DMSSRV
  todo: View Thread, Original

Although the frameset on the SECOND page of the listed site
[] is done exceptionally well, it DOES, in
fact, recompress and LOSE some portions of the background images in the
framsets in Netscape. You can see an illustrated example of this at

What you will see after loading this screenshot, is a portion of both MSIE
5.5 and Netscape 4.75 on the same page. A portion of the region between the
top frame and the two lower frames has been sampled and enlarged from both
browsers. Look carefully in the blue ovals... These areas clearly show how
Netscape, despite your hard work, IS IN FACT misaligning your framesets.

In the left oval of both enlargements, there is a silver-grey "Y"-shaped
thing, leaning about 45deg to the left. Just below this is a three-dotted
shape. The three dots appear in MSIE, but only TWO show up in Netscape in
this example (I've had it down to just one). To the right of the "Y"-shaped
thing is a faint grid. In MSIE, the grid is roughly even. In Netscape, two
lines are visibly closer to each other than any of the rest. In the right
oval of both segments is a fish-shaped-rock-like thing. In MSIE, it has a
couple smudges below it on the left, while in Netscape, these smudges are
almost completely missing. Also, in the Netscape sample, a more defined
horizontal edge can be seen below the top frame graphic that is less
noticable in the MSIE version.

To further illustrate this compression, please see This contains just the
enlargements from the first image, but the background color of the page has
been filled with yellow. This helps to further identify how much Netscape
really is cutting off of the top frame.

NOTE: Other than colorizing the background for the second image, placing
enlarged views on the first, and adding blue ovals and text to both, these
images have not been otherwise altered, and are EXACTLY as they appeared in
my browsers. The singular purpose for this is to demonstrate how even the
most diligent coding can be screwed by Netscape's inability to properly
display frame sizes, regardless of how they are set up. To obtain Netscape's
deformation of this particular site, all I had to do was make minor and
subtle adjustments to the browser window's width and height.

Now, can we all PLEASE not get into a spitting match over this? Versions of
Netscape prior to the forthcoming v6 CANNOT display pixel-specific
framesets, and no matter how hard one tries to make a frame work, ANY
overlapping of text or graphics from one frame region to another will ALWAYS
get scrunched on the border, or a gap will appear between the two sets. What
better proof of Netscape's inability to render frames correctly do you need
than to go to Netscape's very own site, which, unless it's been changed
recently, had a frameset in the Developer's section -- the background images
used in the frames DO NOT TOUCH (on purpose) and a gap was deliberately left
between the frames (again, on purpose) because the browser cannot reliably
put neighboring frames right next to each other without screwing up

Hope this enlightens, rather than upsets.
Kehvan M. Zydhek

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Prentice" <rjp(at)>
To: "'tim booker'" <timbooker(at)>; "Martha Liles"
<martha(at)>; <hwg-techniques(at)>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 04:55
Subject: RE: Frames problem

> there is though. netscape converts a frames pixel size into a percentage.
> you find the right pixel size then the conversion into percentage will
> the same.
> 's frames are the same in IE and netscape 4.6 and the
> design depends on the size of the frames, and they also stay intact on
> different screen resolutions. netscape is very awkward when it comes to
> frames, but there is always a way round it. ive never had any problems in
> getting frames to work the way they need to view the page properly. even
> it just means an extra frames page and a auto-redirect.
>  Rob.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tim booker [mailto:timbooker(at)]
> Sent: 14 September 2000 11:21
> To: Martha Liles; hwg-techniques(at)
> Subject: RE: Frames problem
> Hello,
> Sadly, there is not much you can do about this problem.  The trouble lies
> the fact that Netscape is terribly inaccurate when it draws frames on the
> screen.
> All you can really do is try to give yourself some more space to let
> Netscape mess up.
> Hope this helps,
> Tim
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-hwg-techniques(at)
> > [mailto:owner-hwg-techniques(at)]On Behalf Of Martha Liles
> > Sent: 13 September 2000 23:12
> > To: hwg-techniques(at)
> > Subject: Frames problem
> >
> >
> > Frames problems
> > Please help. I would appreciate anyone telling me how to fix the
> > problem.
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Problem: the left column frame, daily_rate2.htm, is not the same width
> > in Netscape Communicator and Microsoft Internet Explorer.  This frame
> > needs to be the same size.
> > There are 4 pixels difference - Microsoft Internet Explorer is 4 pixels
> > wider than  Netscape .
> >
> > The page can be viewed at
> >
> > <frameset rows="65,*"  frameborder="0" border="0" framespacing="0">
> >   <frame src="home_top2.htm" name="tf" scrolling="NO" frameborder="0"
> > marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" noresize>
> >   <frameset cols="156,*"  frameborder="0" border="0" framespacing="0">
> >     <frame src="daily_rate2.htm" name="lf" frameborder="0"
> > scrolling="NO" noresize marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
> >     <frame src="home_mfc.htm" name="mf" frameborder="0" scrolling="AUTO"
> > marginwidth="12" marginheight="14">
> >   </frameset>
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Martha Liles
> >
> >
> >

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