Re: Frames vs. Tables

by keller(at)amsoil.com (Kyle Eller)

 Date:  Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:46:00 -0600
 To:  jallen(at)thunder.ocis.temple.edu
 Cc:  hwg-theory(at)hwg.org
  todo: View Thread, Original
Drew,

>"Creating a drop shadow effect" using CSS is bad design and shows the author's
>poor knowledge of HTML/CSS. The fact that it degrades badly is a reflection of
>its bad design and is not caused by the CSS.

I agree that using CSS for drop shadows is bad *practice*, and I wouldn't
do it or recommend it. However, it *is* recommended in many legitimate
tutorials on the subject (I'm remembering a _MacWorld_ article in
particular, but I think something similar also appeared in the C|Net
tutorial). The practice uses standard, valid CSS and mimics the technique
for producing drop shadows in other media (e.g. I would use an equivalent
technique in QuarkXPress or Adobe Illustrator to create a drop shadow).

A practice's failure to degrade properly does not necessarily equate to
"bad design" at least not by any objective standard I know of, nor does it
necessarily reflect lack of knowledge about CSS or HTML in the author.
IMHO, if code is written in accordance with appropriate specifications,
achieves an effect common in many media and is *recommended* in tutorials
written by experts, it's a little presumptuous to call it "bad design." It
may degrade badly and you or I may not like it, but it's not "wrong." I
also think claiming someone who uses valid HTML and valid CSS to achieve
such an effect has "poor knowledge of HTML/CSS" also seems a little over
the top.

>CSS used appropriately should never produce an unreadable page in non-CSS
>browsers.

Appropriate by what definition? If your definition is "anything that
produces an unreadable page," you're right. Unfortunately, that definition
includes several valid CSS layout techniques -- exactly my point in the
first place.

Go to http://webreview.com/97/06/27/coder/index.html, turn off your style
sheets and click on the first demo. This is a complicated example that uses
a JavaScript for animation, but even simple layouts that don't use
JavaScript *can* be troublesome. You might call this example and the
thousands of others I don't have time to look up "inappropriate" uses of
CSS or say that they show the author's ignorance of HTML/CSS. I guess we
can agree to disagree.

Kyle
keller(at)amsoil.com

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