Re: Frames vs. Tables

by keller(at)amsoil.com (Kyle Eller)

 Date:  Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:31:10 -0600
 To:  hwg-theory(at)hwg.org
  todo: View Thread, Original
Drew responded to my last message via private e-mail, and I asked if I
could share our discussion with the list in case anyone's still listening:

Drew said:

>You wrote:
>
>> Anyway, thanks for restating your position, Drew. I only wish in doing so
>> you would've portrayed mine accurately.
>
>If I understand correctly, you are saying that adherence to the standards is
>sufficient for good design. What I am saying is that adherence to the
>standards is
>necessary, but not sufficient for good design.

In response, I said:

Thanks for clarifying. Now that I think about this again, we should clarify
a semantic issue here. There are two senses of the word design that are
often used interchangeably -- design like buildings (engineering) or design
like newspaper pages (the traditional media use of the word). Web design
can refer to either or both.

In truth, I don't think our positions are too far apart. I recommended
against CSS positioning because it has valid design (media) possibilities
that are widely recommended in this media and equivalent to long-standing
techniques used in other media that also happen to pose serious design
(engineering, i.e. cross-platform) problems. You obviously don't favor
these techniques either, but feel more careful CSS/HTML authorship can
avoid them. If I understand correctly, our real difference of opinion is in
how widespread we believe these cross-platform problems are in the first
place.

That's a legitimate difference of opinion, and in light of yours I'll give
it another look. I'd actually like to be wrong (wow, did I actually say
that? <g>) because I *like* CSS and would love to be able to use the
positioning aspects of it more freely. My original recommendation against
CSS positioning was only until the cross-platform problems were solved. I
believe it is the future; if it's the present, too, so much the better.

To answer your question, no I don't believe adherence to the standards is
sufficient for good design in either sense of the word. I merely thought
your calling anything that doesn't create a completely cross-platform
solution "bad design" regardless of other factors (like validity, use in
other media, widespread use, the semantic issue, etc.) cut too wide a
swath, as did accusing all people who choose such a technique of having
poor knowledge of HTML/CSS.

Kyle
keller(at)amsoil.com
http://www.cp.duluth.mn.us/~eller/kyle/

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