Re: Accessible tables

Ohhhhh... this is gettin' good...

Lauren



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Foliot - Another 4:00 AM Web Thing" <foliot(at)fouram.com>
To: "Barry Johnson" <b_w_j(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: "Aware-Techniques" <aware-techniques(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: Accessible tables


> > require a complete summary attribute for all tables
> > (layout or not)
>
> Huh?  Is this really part of the 508 requirements?  And if so, where does
it
> say that?  I've got a print out here in my office, and I see the following
> in reference to tables:
>
> (g) Row and column headers shall be identified for data tables. (JOHN
NOTES
> THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO _DATA_ TABLES)
>
> (h) Markup shall be used to associate data cells and header cells for data
> tables that have two or more logical levels of row or column headers.
(JOHN
> ONCE AGAIN NOTES THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO _DATA_ TABLES)
>
> (Source:
http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=12#Web )
>
> <opinion>
> What drug crazed paper pusher insists on Summaries to Layout Tables?  Tell
> them they are wrong and have them prove you wrong! </opinion>
>
> Honestly, am I missing something here, or are Barry's reviewers just power
> trippin'?
>
> JF
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aware-techniques(at)hwg.org
> > [mailto:owner-aware-techniques(at)hwg.org]On Behalf Of Barry Johnson
> > Sent: February 26, 2002 7:56 PM
> > To: brian walker; aware-techniques(at)hwg.org
> > Subject: RE: Accessible tables
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your input Brian.
> > However, as a developer for the US Federal Govt, most
> > of the agencys I deal with have very strict guidelines
> > and a review panel for every page that goes up. The
> > Access Board, DoT, DoJ and Treasury all require
> > reqiure a complete summary attribute for all tables
> > (layout or not) as well as "blank" in all empty cells
> > and "spacer" in all place holding gifs.
> > I use IBM Hompage and JAWS to double check the flow of
> > the pages, but they still have to go to a review
> > committee, each of whom rely on assistive technologies
> > to do thier jobs.
> > OK, when I do non-Gov sites I tend to follow your
> > model but they do not have to be 508...
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > --- brian walker <bwalker5(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > As a screen reader user, I personally do not want
> > > layout tables identified
> > > as such. It is just extra verbiage.
> > >
> > > The table specific commands available through my
> > > screen reader are
> > > intentionally not functional in tables with only one
> > > row. This works very
> > > well.
> > >
> > > I do not use summary attributes in the tables I
> > > create unless they are:
> > >
> > > 1. data tables
> > > 2. complex enough that a summary truly adds value,
> > > i.e. makes the table
> > > easier to understand.
> > >
> > > I may be blind, but I do not think it is that
> > > difficult to figure out.
> > >
> > > However, I recognize that mileage may vary for
> > > others.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-aware-techniques(at)hwg.org
> > > [mailto:owner-aware-techniques(at)hwg.org]On Behalf Of
> > > Barry Johnson
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:05 PM
> > > To: aware-techniques(at)hwg.org
> > > Subject: Re: Accessible tables
> > >
> > >
> > > Until all browsers recognize CSS, the Accesibility
> > > Community has nothing against using tables for
> > > layout,
> > > as long as they are identified as such...
> > >
> > > Barry
> > >
> > > --- Pam Ware <tam(at)gn.apc.org> wrote:
> > > > At 10:59 26/02/02, Barry wrote:
> > > > >But don't forget to use the summary attribute!
> > > > ><table (size) (border) (etc) summary="Table used
> > > > for
> > > > >layout.">
> > > > I thought the goal was to use tables only for
> > > table
> > > > data, not for layout -
> > > > and move towards CSS positioning? If so, any
> > > > suggestions of how best to do
> > > > that in order to include navigation bars, related
> > > > links etc. as well as
> > > > main page content?
> > > > TIA,
> > > > Pam
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>

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