RE: a new search engine spam "trick"

If what you say is true, that he has a page specifically made for the search
engine to trick it into listing him high, write to spamcontrol(at)altavista.com
(I'm not sure of the spelling, but there is a link to it off of the submit a
site page.  The spelling is probably spam-control), and inform them of your
suspicions.  These search engines frown HEAVILY on people who make junk
pages just to rank highly on the engines, and then replace them with the
real page.  Altavista might even ban them for life, although a bit extreme.
It will probably take about a week to get a response from their spam control
(it did for me on an issue I had), but if all else fails, submit their site
again.  They will unknowingly be re-indexed and probably lowered in the
rankings.  Warning - I don't know if that last line would be considered
ethical, I can justify it using Immanuel Kant's version of Utilitarianism
(greatest amount of good, for the greatest amount of people (the SE users),
over the long haul), and with Machiavelli (ends justify the means), so it's
up to you to decide the ethics for your self.


   Hope This Helps,

       Ryan Huggins

-----Original Message-----
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:12:00 -0700
From: Lori Eldridge <lorield(at)uswest.net>
Subject: a new search engine spam "trick"

Hi All,

This could be an interesting study in search engine manipulation:

I was checking out why one of my client's competition in Texas is
usually listed higher than my client's site in WA ( they have same
name but different extensions .com vs .net). I checked the same site
about a month ago and he had spammed the keyword meta tag with about
16 lines of keywords and hardly no text on the home page other than
the title, links and what's on the images.

  I just checked the listing in Altavista again and I discovered that
he has now taken out all but 3 lines from the meta tags and is now
spamming the alt tags with repeat lists of about 28 words each and he
still has hardly any text on the home page. In this way the name of
the site will appear numerous times in what some search engines will
read as text (AltaVista is buying it but apparently not AOL cause we
are now listed above him on AOL, NBCI/snap, Netscape and a few
others.)

AND WHAT IS EVEN MORE INTERESTING is that when I click on the
Altavista link I get the HTML code as listed above. However when I
just enter the URL in Netscape I get the old code with the metatag
keywords spammed again.

When you enter the URL in this manner you get a page with the title
"Parkway Chevrolet Contents Page" and when you click on the Altavista
link you get "Parkway Chevrolet Tomball TX".  It appears he may have
changed the title so people won't know it's in Texas.

Do you think he has made up an alternate page for search engines? I
read about this in WebProNews.

Please let me know if you know of a way to work around this guy. I'm
not going to stoop low enough to spam alt tags.

Here is the site in question:
http://www.parkwaychevrolet.com

Here is my client's address so you don't confuse the two:
http://www.parkwaychevrolet.net

Lori Eldridge
Lori's Web Design
www.loriswebs.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:17:48 -0500
From: Tamara Abbey <tamara(at)abbeyink.com>
Subject: Re: Mountains to big to climb

I think that was sarcasm on Bryan's part -- not intended as slamming
graphic artists, just venting about people who are clueless trying to lead
him down the merry path??


At 01:32 PM 10/20/00 -0600, Shawn Sass wrote:
>If it weren't for graphic artists and thier "pretty pictures" there
probably
>wouldn't be a world wide web as we know it today.  The web would still be
>plain
>text  pages with the only people using it being scientists and programmers.
I
>don't think there would be much of a demand for advertisements, promotions,
or
>complex web applications if that were the case.  Therefor there would be no
>demand for webmasters or web programmers because everybody using the web
would
>be a programmer themselves.  That is why we make these "pretty" web pages
>isn't
>it?  So that normal, non-programming, computer illiterate people will be
able
>to use them.  If everyone looking at websites had programming knowledge
they
>could look through a bunch of text and find what they wanted instead of
>clicking on pretty pictures that lead them to the same place.
>I'm a graphic designer and I know that without web programmers and the
>advances
>they make my job would be ALOT harder.  I would expect that programmers
would
>have a similar respect towards graphic designers.  Because if it weren't
for
>us, you wouldn't have anybody to program for.
>
>Bryan Bateman wrote:
>
> > been around the block.  Know that they have someone in mind that
> operates in
> > that manner, but they have to open it to the public ( it is a school
> system)
> >
> > They advertized for a webmaster, but actually it seems they need more of
a
> > graphic artist and wanted someone with photoshop to come and draw them a
> > pretty picture.
> >
> > ya win some ya loose some.  No hard feelings if someone on this list
> > recognises the job opening.
> >
> > I asked the question here to see if this type of method was being used
by
> > other employers?  If this is the norm then I better rethink the way I am
> > preparing my job search.
> >
> > I thought the method was more how a contracting company bid for work
> and not
> > what I am used to seeing when actually applying for work.  Maybe this
> is the
> > beginning of the gray line between those two pursuits.
> >

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:59:24 -0400
From: "Captain F.M. O'Lary" <ctfuzzy(at)canopy.net>
Subject: Re: Paint shop pro

At 01:37 PM 10/20/00 +0100, Bryan Bateman wrote:
>For a graphics program it is the most bang for the buck.

here here.

As much as it pains me to be so agreeable, Bryan is right as rain.

Fuzzy
<A die-hard Photo Shop user for YEARS>
__________________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster(at)canopy.net
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin'
somebody else's dog around.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:09:15 -0400
From: "Captain F.M. O'Lary" <ctfuzzy(at)canopy.net>
Subject: Re: &nbsp for td

Shelley,

my vote is for the .gif because of the sizing flexibility it offers (a 2X5
pixel transparent gif is ~tiny~ in terms of file size, but can be stretched
dimensionally, by the definition in the img tag, to meet any [practical]
spacing need without making the file download any larger).

As far as "issues", I interpret that to mean
stability/reliability/predictability issues.

As most folks know, IE and NS render (interpret?) spaces differently. It is
my *opinion* that using the .gif would avoid the potential layout problems
associated with this anomaly.


HTH,
Fuzzy

At 10:50 AM 10/20/00 -0700, Shelley Watson wrote:
>Dear Folks
>
>	I used the nbsp for a couple of empty td cells instead of my
>usual blank.gif yesterday (long story, too embarassing to tell
>:) ) so.....I was wondering if there are any "issues" with regard
>to using one over the other (notice how I have an aversion to
>finding out the hard way - must be because of all the other
>wonderful mistakes I make :) ).  It's working just fine for the
>site I'm presently on but I'm curious as to any difficulties that
>it might present in other situations.  Comments, anyone?
>
>TIA
>Shelley
>shelleyw(at)home.com
__________________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster(at)canopy.net
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin'
somebody else's dog around.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:37:46 -0400
From: "Walter Kesting" <kesting(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Mountains to big to climb

Fuzzy:

You are too funny.  I fell off of the chair lauhging with your DELICATE
response.

I prefer a howitzer right between the eyes.

Walter

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org [mailto:owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org]On
Behalf Of Captain F.M. O'Lary
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 12:34 PM
To: Bryan Bateman; hwg-basics(at)hwg.org
Subject: Re: Mountains to big to climb


Bryan,

I often face this. It's never a problem. All you need is notepad or the
equivalent . . . IF (obviously) you are the person they are looking for.

See my point?

I apologize for not phrasing it more "delicately", but that never was my
strong suit.

HTH,
Fuzzy

At 11:15 AM 10/20/00 +0100, Bryan Bateman wrote:
>I am in the process of looking for gainful employment.
>
>As a requirement for the interview process I was asked to bring my own
>laptop with all my development software on it OR supply them with the
>software so that their IT department could install it.
>
>I do not own nor can I afford a laptop at this time.
>
>I do not know how many of you out there support your own computer(s), but I
>have my tools strung across multiple machines and multiple OS's with
>databases, web servers, perl, php, jsp, asp etc.  I asked if I could use a
>browser during the demonstration to point to my home or production
>environments?  NO
>
>I asked if I could bring printouts?  NO
>
>They wanted to see me create a web page while they watched.
>
>Is this normal for a job interview?
>
__________________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster(at)canopy.net
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin'
somebody else's dog around.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:41:46 +0100
From: "Bryan Bateman" <batemanb(at)home.com>
Subject: On the lighter side.

Try to click on what appears to be links.  View the source.

geeeze a page of links that do not link.

http://www.pdgsoft.com/Support/E-Commerce_Reference/Links_for__Better_Busine
ss_Bur/links_for__better_business_bur.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:08:13 -0400
From: "howardm" <howardm(at)achilles.net>
Subject: Re: &nbsp for td

The only problem using the gif is that if visitors have graphics turned off
they don't get an empty space.
I use transparent gifs myself  - just something to consider.

howardm


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Captain F.M. O'Lary <ctfuzzy(at)canopy.net>
To: Shelley Watson <shelleyw(at)home.com>; <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: &nbsp for td


> Shelley,
>
> my vote is for the .gif because of the sizing flexibility it offers (a 2X5
> pixel transparent gif is ~tiny~ in terms of file size, but can be
stretched
> dimensionally, by the definition in the img tag, to meet any [practical]
> spacing need without making the file download any larger).
>
> As far as "issues", I interpret that to mean
> stability/reliability/predictability issues.
>
> As most folks know, IE and NS render (interpret?) spaces differently. It
is
> my *opinion* that using the .gif would avoid the potential layout problems
> associated with this anomaly.
>
>
> HTH,
> Fuzzy
>
> At 10:50 AM 10/20/00 -0700, Shelley Watson wrote:
> >Dear Folks
> >
> > I used the nbsp for a couple of empty td cells instead of my
> >usual blank.gif yesterday (long story, too embarassing to tell
> >:) ) so.....I was wondering if there are any "issues" with regard
> >to using one over the other (notice how I have an aversion to
> >finding out the hard way - must be because of all the other
> >wonderful mistakes I make :) ).  It's working just fine for the
> >site I'm presently on but I'm curious as to any difficulties that
> >it might present in other situations.  Comments, anyone?
> >
> >TIA
> >Shelley
> >shelleyw(at)home.com
> __________________________________________________________________
> Captain F.M. O'Lary
> webmaster(at)canopy.net
> If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin'
> somebody else's dog around.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:38:04 +0930
From: Kym Jones <kjones(at)adam.com.au>
Subject: Re: Paint shop pro

I can't help but chime in here...

If you're looking for a graphics program that is every bit as good, as
PhotoShop and PSP, cheaper and way more user friendly, take a look at
Ulead's PhotoImpact. There's a new version out now and a trial can be
downloaded at www.ulead.com.

I have no connection with the company, but I've been using PI for about
four years now and IMHO it's the best graphics program out there and it's
starting to give PSP a real run for it's money.

Just my 02 cents...

Kym


At 01:37 PM 20/10/2000 +0100, Bryan Bateman wrote:
>For a graphics program it is the most bang for the buck.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "david pippen" <pipwax(at)mediaone.net>
>To: <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:21 PM
>Subject: Paint shop pro
>
>
> > Can anyone give me Info on jasc Paint Shop Pro 6.01
> > I am thinking about purchasing this one.
> >
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:29:06 EDT
From: ErthWlkr(at)aol.com
Subject: Puzzle....

Good morning friends:

At the request of a friend looking for help with a form, I am forwarding
this
message from her:

> I have a web page that has a mailto: submit button (CGI isn't usable) but
if
>  I do it in AOL it opens a mail window and doesn't submit the form.
>  Any ideas?
>  The page is:
>  http://www.uscj.org/njersey/paramus/donation.html
>  Thanks for any help.

Intersting points - I had no problem submitting the form on my Mac - but
when
I tried it on my PC, AOL opened a mail window as she described, and both IE
and Netscape came up with an error message saying they couldn't find the
server.

I played with this for a couple of hours but can't figure out why this is
happening.  Could the members of this list please take a try at this mystery
- - it would be greatly appreciated by all...  :-)

- - Jeff K.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:24:19 -0400
From: "Laura  Dowling" <laura(at)dowlingcentral.com>
Subject: RE: Puzzle....

It does the same thing with IE5. In order for forms to work consistently,
you have to use CGI. I learned that the hard way. If you don't have access
to a CGI bin, there are several forms services that will handle the script
for you. Some are free

response-o-matic
http://www.response-o-matic.com/

is one service that looks good.

*******************************
Laura Dowling
mailto:laura(at)dowlingcentral.com
http://www.dowlingcentral.com
ICQ 15690083
*******************************



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org [mailto:owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org]On
Behalf Of ErthWlkr(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 8:29 AM
To: hwg-basics(at)hwg.org
Subject: Puzzle....


Good morning friends:

At the request of a friend looking for help with a form, I am forwarding
this
message from her:

> I have a web page that has a mailto: submit button (CGI isn't usable) but
if
>  I do it in AOL it opens a mail window and doesn't submit the form.
>  Any ideas?
>  The page is:
>  http://www.uscj.org/njersey/paramus/donation.html
>  Thanks for any help.

Intersting points - I had no problem submitting the form on my Mac - but
when
I tried it on my PC, AOL opened a mail window as she described, and both IE
and Netscape came up with an error message saying they couldn't find the
server.

I played with this for a couple of hours but can't figure out why this is
happening.  Could the members of this list please take a try at this mystery
- - it would be greatly appreciated by all...  :-)

- - Jeff K.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:50:52 -0500
From: "Charla & Ed Springer" <egs(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: &nbsp for td

Shelley,

I use the nbsp attribute whenever I do not need to control the size of the
empty cell in the table. Where I need the cell to be a specific size, I use
an appropriately sized blank.gif file. So far, I've never had a problem with
it. As far as I know, when using the nbsp to fill in a cell, the content of
surroounding cells will dictate its size.

Edward Springer
Athens, Alabama - Our snappy comeback, "As a mater of fact, I am a rocket
scientist."
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelley Watson" <shelleyw(at)home.com>
To: <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 12:50 PM
Subject: &nbsp for td


> Dear Folks
>
> I used the nbsp for a couple of empty td cells instead of my
> usual blank.gif yesterday (long story, too embarassing to tell
> :) ) so.....I was wondering if there are any "issues" with regard
> to using one over the other (notice how I have an aversion to
> finding out the hard way - must be because of all the other
> wonderful mistakes I make :) ).  It's working just fine for the
> site I'm presently on but I'm curious as to any difficulties that
> it might present in other situations.  Comments, anyone?
>
> TIA
> Shelley
> shelleyw(at)home.com
>
> "A journey of a thousand miles
> starts from beneath one's feet"
> --------Lao-Tzu
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:45:48 -0500
From: "Charla & Ed Springer" <egs(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Paint shop pro

David,

I've been using Paint Shop Pro since version 3 and I have found it to be a
very good tool for creating graphics and working with photographs. I have
also tried Adobe Photo Shop and find it a bit to deep (I being of simple
mindedness). For the price, can't be beat. Once purchased, updates are
available at half the original cost, around $50.00. Version 7 has just been
released. My recommendation, go for it!

Edward Springer
Athens, Alabama - That's a long way from Cape Cod!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "david pippen" <pipwax(at)mediaone.net>
To: <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:21 AM
Subject: Paint shop pro


> Can anyone give me Info on jasc Paint Shop Pro 6.01
> I am thinking about purchasing this one.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:27:04 -0400
From: "Kali Woodbridge" <kaliajer(at)mail.com>
Subject: RE: &nbsp for td

Mornin' Shelley--

When I use the &nbsp; in Netscape (v4.6) on a Mac without wrapping it
in <.P> tags, it is ignored, and depending on how the rest of the
table is structured (numerical data versus images) this may look okay
or very odd. Also, using any image in a table in Netscape requires
that I define cell height and width to get consistent rendering. Of
course, it is a good idea to do this anyway with any image. Keep in
mind that Netscape (at least) sees the dimensions as "do not go
smaller than these dimensions" but will often make cells larger if the
browser thinks it needs to (i.e., something else in the row forces the
height taller, etc.).

I have not experienced these limitations in IE on the Mac or the PC,
v4.+.

Good luck!
kali
kaliajer(at)mail.com
=================
The learning curve is now a spin cycle
- --Paul Bicknell





- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org [mailto:owner-hwg-basics(at)hwg.org]On
Behalf Of Shelley Watson
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 1:51 PM
To: hwg-basics(at)hwg.org
Subject: &nbsp for td


Dear Folks

	I used the nbsp for a couple of empty td cells instead of my
usual blank.gif yesterday (long story, too embarassing to tell
:) ) so.....I was wondering if there are any "issues" with regard
to using one over the other (notice how I have an aversion to
finding out the hard way - must be because of all the other
wonderful mistakes I make :) ).  It's working just fine for the
site I'm presently on but I'm curious as to any difficulties that
it might present in other situations.  Comments, anyone?

TIA
Shelley
shelleyw(at)home.com

"A journey of a thousand miles
starts from beneath one's feet"
- --------Lao-Tzu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:25:20 -0500
From: "Carol Parent" <cbwd(at)means.net>
Subject: ISP War - OT?

Hello all,

I am not sure how off topic this really is since it does concern the
"basics".  Hosting your site and your rights as admin/owner of the domains
you take care of.

In the last two weeks, the web host who I host with let me know that they
were setting up their own server.  (They had been reselling space).  I
thought that was excellent for them.  Little did I know what was personally
in store for me.

The ISP that my host had been using for my sites is listed as Technical
Contact on Network Solutions. (Which I would have thought was proper or at
least not a problem.)

Well guess what?  It would seem that this ISP is not happy with my host
taking all their sites away from them and is refusing to let my sites go.
When I sent in the request for an ISP change thru Network Solutions (I am
admin contact AND owner), I was not allowed to switch.  Network Solutions
informed me that my request was turned down because the present ISP said NO
to the switch.  I was also informed (and Network Solutions said this is a
little known detail) that it does not matter who owns the domain, the tech
contact can OVERRIDE whatever you say.

Now there is a solution.  I need to fax Network Solutions proof of who I am,
the changes I want, and they will do it.   BUT the fact that I have to go
thru all this even though I am the owner AND admin contact makes one a bit
leery of allowing ANYONE to be listed other than yourself as the
person/business in charge of your domains.   So, until Network Solution acts
upon my fax requesting the change in ISP, my domains hang in limbo.  The DNS
points to the OLD ISP yet they will pull the plug on them once the time paid
for has run out and the NEW ISP which is paid for wont work since the DNS
doesn't point to them.

So just a heads up for your own protection.  This has been a MAJOR waste of
time.  If anyone would like to know who the ISP is that is doing this so
they can KNOW who not to host with, email me privately and I will give you
their name.



Regards,

Carol Parent
http://www.cbwdesign.com
admin(at)cbwdesign.com

"The only way to amuse some people is to slip and fall on an icy pavement. "

------------------------------

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