Fw: Accessibility validation

Hallo Hilma,

OO a Dutchman with 5 languages.. that will be past time since only English is
obliged in schools... In my time we had to learn 4 languages (French, German,
English and Dutch) I have papers as mail varying from the Washington Post till
Le Monde Diplomatique. But only meant to keep my translationabilities at some
level higher as zero.

As I studied German some time, I build a fanwebsite in German for a band,
already existing 30 years, in Cologne. You can look for it
http://www.hoehnermusikfan.net/ I have not finished that site but it meets all
the WCAG 1.0 accessibilityguidelines and validates as XHTML 1.1.

I think you should offer all your visitors the same information.. remembering
mails on the W3C-WAI-list that also discussed this item... and how disabled
people reacted on it.

Most items in the Dutch site are also to be find in the WAI-part of the
W3C-site.
In Germany is now  (since the first of May) also an accessibilitylaw for
governmentsites. Required is conformance level AA of the WAI-guidelines.
Also the European Parlement will decide in future about accessible sites.. but
after that it will take time for it is implemented by all membercountries.

 The Lynxviewer  can be downloaded on
http://www.trill-home.com/lynx/general.html

Cheers
Ineke




----- Original Message -----
From: "Hilma" <Hilma(at)hilma.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Ineke van der Maat" <inekemaa(at)xs4all.nl>; <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility validation


> hi Ineke-
>
>  and thank you for that -
>
> > Accessibility requires also a page is accessible without java script.
> > Your popup-menus are not accessible without javascript and  in this way
> you
> > offer different information to sighted
> > and not sighted visitors. I don't think you want that.
>
> Yes, but all my pages are still totally *accessible* without JS.
> What is not available, is the DHTML / short-cut menu / dropdowns.
> These require JS; but without JS, the user simply clicks on the (say)
> "volunteers" button, and gets the "volunteers" page, which has got the
> submenu (drop-down) opened up and visible in full.
> There is no less *accessibility* without JS, i've been careful about that -
> but there is a *short-cut* available with JS.
>  http://mysite.freeserve.com/bbm/hagar/HH/HHAbout.htm
>
> Is that not sufficient?
> I hope so, and it's just that you hadn't clicked the "Volunteers" button to
> see!
> It is, of course, possible that those with JS won;t realise that there is a
> "Volunteers" page, and will miss it by always using the shortcuts, and i'm
> not sure what to do about that -  unless I add another option to the
> Volunteers submenu, called, "volunteers" :-o
>
> (You also need JS to view a photograph full-size;
> if you click on a thumbnail in the BTCV volunteers page (That's me at the
> bottom with a saw ;-)   ) you get a new window with the full-size photo in,
> but nothing else. I feel that accessibility in this case is not an issue, as
> the photo alone is not much usefor anyone with text-only anyway -  and that
> it is "icing" rather than content.
> Does that sound reasonable, i really would like an opinion).
>
> OH NO - this but doesn't work anymore! It did last time i tried -  and will
> do again, just as i've read all my mail!
>
> > I looked your page in http://www.accessibility.nl  click site testen
> snoop
> > with only tables and images on.. or test your site in lynx is also
> possible in
> > this site.. .
> I want to check with a text-only browser, but i'm not sure where to get
> one - is there one i can download from somewhere to make that  test?
> Though that site does look good (oh help, the curse of the English - i only
> read English!  Every Dutchman i have met is fluent in about 5 langauges, but
> being English i'm limited to one and a few scrapings)
> Can you give a quick translation of all the stuff in the drop-downs please?!
> Bobby and lynxviewer i can understand, but what else is in there that is
> useful for a non-Dutch speaker?!
>
>
> > There is also something wrong with your text about the browsers . I can
> read the
> > code not the text.
> > I can see | between the links but WCAG requires this [  ...] and when you
> want
> > to have the validation-icons on your page , put || in your alt  (altribute
> alt="
> > || " ) and || will be showed on lynx to seperate them.
>
> I'm sorry, i don;t quite understand.
> Can you quote the bit of code i use, and also your correction?
>
> I haven;t found the actual WCAG validation,  unless it is the same as
> Bobby - but i'm keen to get the logo!
>
> Many thanks for your help --
>
> hilma
> ---x---
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ineke van der Maat" <inekemaa(at)xs4all.nl>
> To: "Hilma" <Hilma(at)hilma.freeserve.co.uk>; <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 3:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Accessibility validation
>
>
> >
> > Hello Hilma,
> >
> >
> > Accessibility requires also a page is accessible without java script.
> >
> > I looked your page in http://www.accessibility.nl  click site testen
> snoop
> > with only tables and images on.. or test your site in lynx is also
> possible in
> > this site.. .
> >
> > Your popup-menus are not accessible without javascript and  in this way
> you
> > offer different information to sighted
> > and not sighted visitors. I don't think you want that.
> > There is also something wrong with your text about the browsers . I can
> read the
> > code not the text.
> > I can see | between the links but WCAG requires this [  ...] and when you
> want
> > to have the validation-icons on your page , put || in your alt  (altribute
> alt="
> > || " ) and || will be showed on lynx to seperate them.
> >
> > Greetings
> > Ineke van der Maat
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hilma" <Hilma(at)hilma.freeserve.co.uk>
> > To: <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 3:05 PM
> > Subject: Accessibility validation
> >
> >
> > > Now i have my W3C strict validation (and a trivial change to do for CSS
> > > validation, which i keep forgetting) -
> > > i have decided to go for accessibility validation :-)
> > >
> > > I seem to have lost the W3C validator link; so i'm using "bobby" at
> > > http://www.cast.org/bobby/
> > >
> > > Along with a number of warnings -
> > > the only show-stopped is my nav bar; as links are "separated only by
> white
> > > space" which is a no-no for this validation.
> > > (They nerge in a text-only browser, i need a seperator symbol).
> > >
> > > So i decided to insert a pipe symbol, but in the same colour as the
> > > menu-background -  so it would be invisible to user with graphic
> browsers.
> > > I assume that it will show in a text-only browser, but i haven't got me
> a
> > > text-only browser to check up in).
> > > (And i don;t want this to mess up my central alignment)
> > >
> > > So i changed all my nav links to
> > > <a href="HHMain.htm"        class="NavButton" id="mnuMain" >Main <span
> > > class="splitBar">|</span></a>
> > >
> > > with
> > > .splitBar {color:#71ad78 }
> > >
> > > (yes, I *know* <span> is not to be used; but i want this pipe next to
> the
> > > link but with a style of its own, to make it invisible).
> > > But it still goes onto a new line, on its own, so spreading all my nav
> > > buttons out
> > >
> > > As i type, it's at
> > > http://mysite.freeserve.com/bbm/hagar/HH/HHAbout.htm
> > >
> > > (the bottom 3 buttons, colour currently rather inconsistent but not yet
> set
> > > to invisible).
> > > I think that each pipe gets a new line becasue the  NavButton class is
> > > defined as
> > >
> > > .NavButton {
> > > display:block;  width: 130px;  height: 18px;
> > > padding: 2px;
> > > border:3px outset #99cc99;
> > > margin:3px;
> > > background:#71ad78;
> > > font: small Verdana;
> > > text-align:center;
> > > text-decoration: none;
> > > }
> > >
> > > but my questions are really:
> > > 1/ Is it acceptable to have a pipe the same colour as the background, to
> > > allow Bobby accessibility validation?
> > > 2/ How do i get my pipe next to my nav button (without messing up the
> > > central alignment of the link text)?
> > > 3/ What would be the most elegant way to get my accessibility
> validation -
> > > as i really don;t *like* this method -
> > > it is an awful lot of html, and uses the <span> tag (which i have been
> > > "encouraged not to ;-) " -
> > > and I only do so now as an attempt to get validation, as i cannot think
> of a
> > > better way! .
> > >
> > > Many thanks for any ideas on this one -
> > >
> > > hilma    <-- collecting validation stickers as fast as i can ;-)
> > > --x-----
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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