Re: Website

    Friends,

      (comments throughout quoted text)

> Further, as mentioned by others, certain pages on LoanLenders do not
> function properly, where they are seamless in BestRate.

        This is not a valid point.  I've taken sites where certain pages
didn't function properly from a previous designer and made them work with
the same design.

> Finally, after two emails that I know of to LoanLenders (mine and one
other
> from this list), the navigation graphics have been changed to text links
on
> LoanLenders... a surer sign of guilt cannot be given, as one who was in
the
> right would not make a quick change like that -- and that's one hell of a
> coincidence if it WASN'T associated with them stealing Susan's work. Now
> that the navigation graphics are missing, I can't send you off for proof,
> but they were the SAME graphics used on Susan's site, and on Susan's site,
> the colors didn't clash...

        I was giving 'it might not be hers' as an example, not a reference.
Other good examples of not acting on someone else's behalf is:  What if they
wanted to bring the company to court to obtain 'damages' and whatnot?  You
now informed the other company of this so they can, as you put it, quickly
change it so their isn't proof of the copied site.  Again, I'm not saying
Susan wanted this, I'm saying you should give HER the option.  Considering
her lawyer said to not let anyone send them messages, I guess maybe I was
right?

> Now, as to you, Jonathon, I'm sure you mean well in your comments, which
are
> all quite valid, but did you bother to do any research into this before
> trying to publicly ostracise me or Susan? Did you compare the two sites,
> side-by-side, seeing how they functioned and looked? Did you view page
> sources to see how they compared? I suspect if you had, you would not have
> made the comments you did in your posting.

        I've dealt with a TON of legal issues with copyrights and the
internet, so I don't need research to tell me that no one should 'act' on
someone else's behalf without their permission and especially without their
knowledge.  You are correct in that I meant well in my comments.  It was
merely a 'heads up' for future reference.  I would have sent it to you
off-list, but felt that others should know as well.

> As for requesting Susan's permission, technically, that would be necessary
> for sending someone's comments to someone else. In this case, however,
after
> performing all the research and comparisons I describe above, I was so
> furious with the blatantly OBVIOUS copy that I simply sent off an email to
> LoadLenders customer service email, the "web designer's" email (at the
> bottom of the main page), Susan, and the list. OBVIOUSLY, it got people's
> attention. I was much more polite than "anonymous" who called them what
they
> are -- scum. I don't know how many other people from this list blasted
> LoanLenders without CCing or BCCing a copy to this list, but obviously
> things ARE changing... While Susan asked for people's opinions, those of
us
> who have read Susan's posts in the past, have seen her work, and in a way
> feel like we "know" Susan were outraged by this theivery (again, which can
> be proved by seeing which site actually WORKS and checking
> subtle-yet-obvious things, like included-file names). I reacted as a
friend,
> but more importantly, as a third-party visitor (read: potential customer)
to
> both sites who can tell where copies are made and misused, and decided
they
> would not get away with this.

        I didn't say you wouldn't get results, I'm saying you should let
Susan deal with it how she sees fit.  She asked for our advice, not our
action.  Furthermore, you should NEVER send an email in anger when it could
involve legal action on either person's part.  This will only hurt the
situation, not help it, as I described earlier.  Another important note to
remember is what the list guide said about the discussion.  By copying what
Susan had wrote to us in the email you sent them, they can, technically, sue
Susan for slander (say that five times fast).

> Now, regarding just sitting around and discussing what can be done rather
> than take action NOW, are you saying, Jonathon, that if you saw someone's
> bag get stolen on the street that you would just turn a blind eye away
from
> that and maybe later discuss it over cigars and brandy with your friends,
or
> would you make chase to at least TRY to bring the theif to justice?

         Heh.  Let's compare it to something a little more 'realistic' to
the situation.  If I went to an art gallery featuring John Doe and studied a
wonderful painting for a few hours, then went to a second gallery featuring
Jane Artist with the exact same painting, but with obvious items from it
that lead me to believe it was a rip off from John Doe, I'm not going to
scream and hollar at Jane.  I'm going to go over and inform John of the
problem and let him handle it.  If they don't know that John knows, then it
does no harm.

        No need to be defensive, I wasn't attacking you, I was simply
looking out for Susan's best interest, as were you.

    Thanks,

    Jonathon Stevens
3spadeFX Productions

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