Re: Frames

So, you can litter your framed site with hacks which try to add some
usability.  However, the easiest solution is always to not use frames in the
first place.

Personally, I'm not totally against frames.  I'm not saying that "frames and
non-frames is the difference between good designers and bad designers".  I
think the decision between frames and no frames is one which should be made
according to the requirements of each individual site.

For example, if your site is mostly "article" based, with a news item on
every page, you want it to be easy for people to bookmark, link to, and pass
on the URL of a single page.  Therefore, that type of web site will not suit
frames at all.

I would also like to point out that some of the advantages of frames can be
duplicated using other technologies.  For example, a single navigation bar
can be included in every page using an IFRAME and ILAYER, server-side (using
SSI, PHP, ASP, etc), Templates within an your HTML editor, JavaScript, etc.

Tim



http://www.timbooker.com/




----- Original Message -----
From: "Klaas De Waele" <klaas(at)gracegraphics.be>
To: "'tim booker'" <timbooker(at)btinternet.com>
Cc: "'Hwg-Techniques'" <hwg-techniques(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Frames


> Okay, comment...
>
> 1. and 2...  I understand completely though I must say whatever happens, I
> alwyas like it when people come in through an entrance, not just being
> dropped in the middle of a warzone without knowing what or where they are.
> But I understand this can indeed be a problem to some people.  You can
> however solve these two point by offering a link to your entrance page
> (which should ALWAYS be done, so I don't take this as a drawback at all -
> just something that shows how well a site is thought-through.  This link
> could be 'hidden' in that it shows up a a part of your design if the page
is
> part of the entire frameset, but is something obvious if you accidentally
> call the page on its own - through searchengine eg).
>
> In this same view, at the bottom of every page could be a link to itself,
> opening in a separate window for example printing or URL forwarding.  Or
in
> this case, you can even offer an 'email this to a friend' button.  These
> things are widely used on high-professional sites.  I however agree this
> lifts the level of difficulty and makes a good frameswebsite harder to
> create.  You won't hear me say though frames and non-frames is the
> difference tetween good designers and bad designers.  I consider it being
a
> different technique.  Main target is making clear frames are not (not)
bad.
>
>
> - Kayjey -
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: tim booker [mailto:timbooker(at)btinternet.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 30 mei 2001 11:12
> Aan: Klaas De Waele
> CC: Hwg-Techniques
> Onderwerp: Re: Frames
>
>
> 1.  The address bar displays the URL of the frameset page, not the content
> page.  This means that you can't easily:
>
>     - Link to the page directly.
>     - Pass the URL on to someone.
>     - Bookmark the page.
>
> 2.  Related to the first point is the fact that your pages will, more than
> likely, be indexed individually by search engines.  This means that your
> page will open up with none of the main navigation.
>
> 3.  On the plus side, you can make the navigation stay on the screen at
all
> times.  On the down side, however, you can make the navigation stay on the
> screen at all times.  This can cause big problems with small screens,
> because the navigation cannot be moved out of the way, giving the whole
> window to the main content.
>
> Just a few thoughts,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Klaas De Waele" <klaas(at)gracegraphics.be>
> To: <hwg-techniques(at)hwg.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:20 AM
> Subject: Frames
>
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> >
> > I'm getting a bit down of all those people around here that hate frames.
> If
> > for once and for all you can express your thoughts WHY frames are bad
(on
> > itself, not just because some codewriter doesn't think about the
features
> > and demands and writes code that will eventually result in 'unexpected'
> > frame behaviour) please do so now.  I've used frames in virtually every
> site
> > I ever made, never ran into problems.
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned:
> >
> > GOOD...
> > - Easy (very) to have navigation
> > - No problem having to scroll up to the navigation again after reading
all
> > the content
> > - Nice to have multi-level navigation
> > - Navigation changes?  Only one thing to change and upload.
> >
> > NOT SO GOOD...
> > - You have to think before doing (oh no, that really puts me off ;) )
> > - Some browsers don't support it*
> > - Hard to make pixel-precise layouts that work across browsers
> > - Reveal some specific problems with the respective browsers (Mozilla
> e.g.)
> >
> > *I have my site put up with an intro page with frames and noframes
> content.
> > The noframes content even has some navigation and subpages without
frames
> as
> > an introduction.  Guess what... last month in total had 3399 visits on
> that
> > first page... 0,29% had non-frames capable browsers.  Visitors came back
> > generally 3 times a month.  If these non-frames capable boys only came
> over
> > once, it means of 1130 visits I miss 10 of them, 1,13%.  I won't be
> changing
> > a thing for them unhappy few, to be honest.
> >
> >
> > - Kayjey -
> > http://www.fiatcoupe.net
> >
>
>
>

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