RE: CSS Confusion

Brian you would have to be kidding surely.   The spec is PRECISE, yes.
It's SPECIFIC yes,  but be honest ... did YOU learn how to use CSS2 from
reading the spec?

In reading a spec, you find most definitions of things, use dozens of =
words
in each definitions that are also unknown.  So to understand one =
definition,
you have to read another, which uses a word or two you don't understand =
so
you have to read a couple of other definitions in order to understand =
this
one, but they in turn use words you don't understand so you have to read
other definitions to understand them but they ..... well hopefully you =
get
the idea.

The SPEC is like a dictionary.   If you're learning English, then
technically you ought to be able to read the dictionary thoroughly and =
you'd
understand the language.  But what a task that would be!  And even if =
you
memorised every definition in the dictionary you still wouldn't have =
learned
how to speak or write English properly.

Brian, like most people in this business, I spend a LOT of time =
learning.
More than a third of my time is spent learning.   And I'm here to tell =
you
that the tools for learning CSS that I have found so far are the most
inefficient tools I've ever seen.   It's CRYING out for someone to write =
a
step-by-step tutorial on CSS2.  I've seen one quite good one, but after
reading through it step by step for an hour and just getting to stuff I
thought was about my level the author adds a disclaimer that "... the =
new
IE5 browser might change some of the things that follow..."  In other =
words
it's totally out of date.

Other "tutorials" on line are instead merely sources of links to other
sites, which in turn are sources of links to others.   =20

Yet others are almost devoid of explanation.  The only way to understand
what's going on is to tinker with one parameter after another to see =
what
happens.  But as you know many CSS parameters are inter-related.  IF you
change one parameter, it can change the way another displays.  So you =
THINK
changing THIS will do what you want, based on what it does in the =
example
you have, but then you go to use it in a real-world style sheet and it
doesn't work, because you haven't got the same set of other styles.   =
It's
very time-consuming to learn this way.

I bill my time out by the hour, and I can't afford to waste a lot of =
time
experimenting in the hope that I'll be learning what I need to know. I =
need
a good mid-level step-by-step tutorial.=20

Take a look at
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/index.html.
Brilliant!  Gives me exactly what I need.  I think.  But there's not a =
word
of explanation of anything there, except a rant about writing valid =
code,
some workarounds to problems, but no actual explanations of what's =
happening
in the examples.  I can see what's there and the only way to learn what
does what is to change things and see what happens.  As I said, very
inefficient way  to learn.

Here's another example.  In the noodleincident.com examples, the style
sheets all have "voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family:inherit; " with no
explanation about that.  What is it for? What on earth would I want
'voice-family' parameter for?  Try finding out what that means in this
tutorial.  I'd have thought a good learning tool would explain something
that isn't obvious like that.   There's nothing at all about voice in =
the
CSS References I have.  I see in the W3C spec it's about speech-rate =
things
but why do I want that in my style sheet?  Does this mean that in order =
to
have CSS positioned pages I also have to learn about sound cards,
microphones, audio files?  WHY?   No explanations there.  Got to dig =
around
yet again to find the answer to that.=20


My point is, I can dig around and dig around and eventually find out =
what it
means.   But if I'm trying to learn, I have only 24 hours in every day =
and I
have to earn a living too, its very inefficient.   Far less efficient =
than
the tools I have found to learn about coldfusion, flash remoting, web
services, and  SQL.



Cheers,
Michael Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks.


p.s. DISCLAIMER:  I'm writing this before I've seen the references =
you've
given Brian, so I might well be speaking too early - for all I know =
you've
given me the ideal learning tools.  I'll have a look later today and =
see.=20





-----Original Message-----
From: Brian V Bonini [mailto:b-bonini(at)cox.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2003 3:31 AM
To: mkear(at)afpwebworks.com
Cc: HWG Techniques
Subject: RE: CSS Confusion

On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 10:27, Michael Kear wrote:

> I'm very grateful to Marten Gallagher who is the first person to give =
me a
> concise and readable answer to that question.=20
>=20

Hmm, I thought the spec was very clear about the various selectors.

Maybe these will help:

http://www.w3schools.com/
http://www.meyerweb.com/
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
http://www.css-discuss.org/

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