Re: CSS problem using XHTML doctype.

At 01:03 AM 04/16/03, you wrote:
>I understand what you're saying.  But let's say for the moment I tend to
>think the no-doctype rendering is how it's supposed to look (which I of
>course don't)....wouldn't the assumption be then that if one were to use the
>doctype, that its appearance would therefore be uniform throughout the
>browsers that support that doctype (Netscape 7, Mozilla 1.3 and IE 6)?  And
>if so, why then would IE 6 render it completely different than the other
>two?

There are several problems with your assumption that "if one were to use 
the doctype, that its appearance would therefore be uniform throughout the 
browsers".

1.  No browser completely implements the standards, with each missing 
different elements of the standard. (It is useful to note in this context 
that the 'standards' are actually called 'recommendations'.)

2.  The specifications do not specify exact details of how content should 
appear:  e.g. with the CSS 'font-size:smaller', the specifications do not 
say how much smaller, so different browser makers implement such things 
differently.

3.  The specifications sometimes do not even give a hint of how the 
content's appearance should be controlled:  e.g. the manner is which LI 
indentation is controlled is left up to the browser maker, and is different 
for IE5, IE5/6, Mozilla, and Opera.

4.  Some aspects of the specifications are ambiguous, so different browser 
makers may interpret the them differently.

5.  The appearance can be affected by user settings, e.g. default fonts and 
font sizes.

6.   And, of course, each browser has its own unique bugs.

>No matter whether you use the doctype or not, it all seems to be degrees of
>quirkiness, which brings me to the ultimate (and off-topic) question:  why
>use doctypes at all if they are still not treated equally among even the
>latest browsers that allegedly support them?

Three points:

1.  A valid HTML page must have a doctype.

2.  Validation of an HTML page requires a doctype.  (You validate your 
pages, right?)

3.  The specs do not say that the doctype should control how closely 
standards should be followed.  Certain browser makers, in an attempt to 
maintain compatibility both with old pages and with standards-compliant 
pages, chose to use the doctype as a way of deciding how closely to apply 
the standards, but different browser makers interpret the doctypes 
differently.  For more on this, see the Browser News at:

     http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/res_doctype.htm

[]  HTH, Chuck Upsdell

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