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I think we should just get back to the normal list subject. I have however
enjoyed talking about this subject, and hope to give and recieve more help
from all list members in the future. I have been on this list for a while
now, and I must say that I have really enjoyed reading and sending emails.
Thanks.

Matthew


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Ohlman" <matthew(at)ohlman.com>
To: "Cook, Shelby" <scook(at)equibase.com>
Cc: "HWG Basics" <HWG-Basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Morality and Pirated Software


> > It's wrong, wrong, wrong.  If someone says it's
> > okay, they're wrong.  Period.  And to not say it's wrong is to allow
them
> to
> > feel okay about what they've done.  You've condoned the action and I
> cannot
> > condone it.
>
> Exactly what I'm talking about! It all just depends on what you believe
in.
> Different people have different beliefs. Some people worship gold cows,
and
> some people don't. You have to respect what they believe in. If not the
> whole world would be at war! You have to take into consideration what
other
> people think. You can't just say my beliefs are what everyone should
> believe.
>
> I haven't condoned anything. I am just trying to show you the other side
of
> the fence.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cook, Shelby" <scook(at)equibase.com>
> To: "'Matthew Ohlman'" <matthew(at)ohlman.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Morality and Pirated Software
>
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matthew Ohlman [mailto:matthew(at)ohlman.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:56 PM
> > > To: Martin Clifford; scook(at)equibase.com; hwg-basics(at)hwg.org;
> > > webguroo(at)tampabay.rr.com
> > > Subject: Re: Morality and Pirated Software
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >>No, but you're missing the point. The value in the cookbook
> > > that was sold
> > > was not in a single recipe, it was in the collection.  If you
> > > copied more
> > > than a few recipies, or say, the whole book, then it is
> > > immoral, wrong and
> > > illegal. You're not just sending a couple of lines of code,
> > > you're sending
> > > the whole thing to someone else.<<
> > >
> > > So? It was said that you are stealing from the person who
> > > wrote the code!!
> > > If you steal three lines of code, you have stole from the
> > > writer. It dosen't
> > > matter if you steal one piece of gum from a pack or the whole
> > > thing, its
> > > stealing.
> >
> > And you seemed to imply that none of it was wrong, or at least that's
how
> I
> > read it.
> >
> > I'm certainly not saying that there isn't line drawing in determining
what
> > is right and wrong.
> > There is.
> > But to say that copying and sending a whole program is so far out of
> bounds
> > that everyone should know it's wrong. And I truly believe they do.  They
> > 'justify' it in a number of ways but it comes down to the fact that they
> > don't want to pay for what they can get free and have little chance at
> being
> > caught and punished for.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >Now that's just ridiculous.  It is not immoral to be strong
> > > enough in your
> > > >convictions to say that your belief is the correct one.
> > > Everyone feels
> > > they
> > > >have to be so politically correct that they don't want to
> > > say they're not
> > > >going to be swayed by the prevailing morals of the time (or
> > > lack thereof).
> > > >Now there may not be a 'great book of morals' but I don't know of any
> > > >religion or civilization that says that stealing is not immoral.
> > >
> > > I NEVER said that you shouldn't stand up for your for what
> > > you believe in.
> >
> > No, but you did say I won't say it's right or it's wrong and that it's
> > immoral to say that you're right and everyone else is wrong.  To me,
that
> > says that you don't have enough conviction to either agree or disagree
OR
> > that you don't want to 'condem' those for what they've done. Maybe I
read
> it
> > the wrong way.
> >
> > > I
> > > said don't be so negative in saying that everyone else is
> > > wrong.
> >
> > Why?  I just don't see it. We're not talking about whether one should
use
> > frames or css.  This is a fundamental moral question.  Stealing is
wrong.
> > Making a copy of a progam is stealing (not borrowing or sharing- unless
> > you're taking it back).  It's wrong, wrong, wrong.  If someone says it's
> > okay, they're wrong.  Period.  And to not say it's wrong is to allow
them
> to
> > feel okay about what they've done.  You've condoned the action and I
> cannot
> > condone it.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Take other
> > > peoples thoughts into consideration. Of course, its human nature to
> > > disagree, but don't just say this is how it is because this
> > > is what I say
> > > and I'm always right.
> >
> > 'take other peoples thoughts into consideration'.  I'm curious as to
what
> > you mean here.  To me, all I hear is people rationalizing why it's okay
to
> > steal when, if they didn't feel it was wrong, they would have no need to
> do.
> > They fail to take responsibility for their actions and try to justify
> their
> > feelings of guilt.  I'm not interested in allowing them to justify away
> > their actions.
> >
> > And I don't think I'm saying 'this is how it is because this is what I
say
> > and I'm always right' or at least I'm not intending to.  I'm saying
every
> > civilization that I know of treats stealing as an immoral act.  It's not
> > just one or two of us.  Those folks who copy and distribute software
> should
> > have been taught a long time ago that stealing is wrong and no amount of
> > rationalization or justification is going to change it.
> >
> >
> > Okay, I'll hop down now and put the soapbox away. :)
> >
> > SC
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>

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