Re: WAP <Fuzzy is confused>

Ed Springer <egs(at)hiwaay.net> wrote:

> First, my apologies to the list for getting off topic, but I felt
compeled
> to respond.

Let me add just one last message to this off topic thread. I am sure the
list guide will jump in shortly... but I want to explain myself to all of
you.

> Olav, I, as I am sure do you, love my country. The United States has its
> share of troubles, but we are working at it.
>
> Before you get too smug and insulting, just remember, my father's
generation
> of Americans fought and died in order to make your country free. After
the
> war, we poured millions into Europe, including the Netherlands, to help
> rebuild. We're not asking for graditude, just a little basic respect.

For the effort and sacrifices of the people of the USA during and after
WWII I *am* grateful. Also for every other nation that participated in
that struggle against fascism. And respect for every other human being is
natural for me. This does not mean I have to agree with them all. This
does not mean I have to be too careful to never hurt their feelings if
their views and opinions seem entirely abject to me.

So I did not really mean to be disrespectful. Perhaps to say "I send you
all my sympathy" was a little over the top. I'm sorry for that.

But other than that, I will not take back any of my argument. What I said,
essentially, was not aimed at all at the people of the USA as a whole
group. More at the laws of this country. I just said essentially that I am
grateful that I do not live in a country (like the USA) where the
possession of firearms is legal for ordinary citizens. Where relative
death rate as a result of gun violence and accidents is ten times or such
higher than in any other country, where guns are outlawed. I thank God
that I don't live there. This is not an insult. It is my feeling, that I
am entitled to express whenever and wherever I choose to do so.

Any reference made to firearms as if they were normal items to sell and
buy in shops, on websites or wherever, and to keep them in your house, any
such reference is in my eyes an insult to humanity and to the value of
life itself. You may say it is a matter of opinion. I say it is a matter
of principle, and one of universal value.

One step further: if challenged to do so I would even defend the idea that
any web designer offering his services to make a website for a gun
manufacturer or retailer - if said website is meaning to actually sell
these devices to the public at large - a moral (if not legal) accomplice
to murder. Someone may think *that* is an insult, but really it is just
another view on the subject.

If you are indeed insulted by the above statement, don't react (specially
not on this forum). I did not have *you* in mind specifically, I don't
even know you. And no discussion about this subject could ever bring our
views closer together if you don't change your mind about it.

But I could agree to disagree, for I am a reasonable person. Disagreement
over this firearms issue does not have to stand in the way of a good
discussion about web design in general. But it can be useful to know each
other's standpoints and sensitivies.

Someone said something like: "I do not have the time to respond to your
insult". Well, then don't. I am not going to loose a single minute of
sleep about such inconsistent reactions.

To cut it short: like anyone else I would like to return to discussing, or
reading discussions about, HTML.

So let's keep the gun shops out of these discussions. They are offensive
to lots of people outside the USA. And please disregard an opinion if you
can't handle it. My initial remark about this guns issue was really just a
sidestep, clearly marked as such, from another line of reasoning. I think
I have presented a couple ideas there that, unimportant as they may be,
are still entirely legitimate discussion material for this list.

BTW Has any one of the list members already read The Cluetrain Manifesto?
It's at <http://cluetrain.com>. Thank you.

Cordially,

Olav Lavell
<mailto:olavell(at)xs4all.nl>

PS And when I say that all the British are ghostdrivers, or they can't
count to a billion, it really is just a joke. I am very fond of the
British, indeed.

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