Re: WAP <Fuzzy is confused>

First, my apologies to the list for getting off topic, but I felt compeled
to respond.

Olav, I, as I am sure do you, love my country. The United States has its
share of troubles, but we are working at it.

Before you get too smug and insulting, just remember, my father's generation
of Americans fought and died in order to make your country free. After the
war, we poured millions into Europe, including the Netherlands, to help
rebuild. We're not asking for graditude, just a little basic respect.

Edward Springer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olav Lavell" <olavell(at)xs4all.nl>
To: "Ted Temer" <temer(at)c-zone.net>; "HWGBASICS" <hwg-basics(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 4:20 PM
Subject: RE: WAP <Fuzzy is confused>


> Ted Temer wrote:
>
> > Keith, Mike and Fuzzy ....
> >
> > Come on you guys - -
> >
> > On behalf of all the long suffering Illustrators,
> > Photographers, (forensic -
> > glamour - advertising - etc.), Artists and hundreds more who slave over
> > images ...
> >
> > May I emphatically suggest that images ARE content.
>
> [snip]
>
> Right. Ted may have contributed one of the most sensible insights to this
> discussion. Images are content.
>
> Who said something about adult sites, and about not thinking of ever going
> to design one? Anyway, there was a clear example of content as well.
>
> In such "adult" sites, clearly the picture is the message. Nothing more
> they offer you, and nothing less.
>
> Oh BTW I would not to be too proud to build an adult site - but I would
> not do it for anyone. There are too many of ugly sleazy sites in that
> genre, I would not want to attach my name to one of those. But if someone
> would come up with nice erotic images of truly high artistic value, why
> would I not build a site around them to present these images in an
> attractive way? Not with too many graphic "design elements" that would
> only distract from the "graphic" content, you know my predilection for
> "KISSing", but with tasteful use of colours and well balanced layout such
> website could be made a success... that I would perhaps not show my mama
> but to my wife and male and female friends and colleagues, all without any
> problems at all.
>
> But no one will ask me, since I am just the webmaster for a very boring
> corporate intranet website. Black text on white background, I designed it
> like that. But there's a couple of intersting applications within this
> website. I also made the database connections (to 3 different database
> systems). I am more of a programmer than a designer anyway. Never shy or
> without an opinion though ;)
>
> Both examples that Ted mentioned, car and weapon sales websites may IMHO
> not be the best examples of sites where "graphics is content". Better
> examples would be online exhibitions, art galleries, or even technical
> websites and such where matters would be explained with diagrams and
> models. Not everything need be commercial. The web is so much more than
> just buying and selling.
>
> BTW who would ever buy such goods as cars and guns from a website, if they
> do not already know *exactly* what they want. If you are looking around
> without a clue as to what you really want to buy, you're still better of
> in a real store.
>
> That's how it works for me, when I want to buy a car I can care less about
> websites. For every car I could afford, I want to know how it smells! I
> want to feel how well the driver's seat supports me (I am not a
> lightweight person). I want to feel how the wheel and stick feel in my
> hands. Is this not true for most customers? Can such impressions be
> derived from pictures, text or tables full of facts?
>
> <ENTIRELYOFFTOPIC>
> Oh, and and thank God that guns are illegal in my country, that's why
> murder rate is relatively low here, specially when compared to the USA. I
> think I would not *ever* think of building a website for a gun shop, like
> I would for an erotic art gallery or even, in time of financial need, an
> adult video shop. Just a matter of principle. I thank God also for not
> being an American. And I send all of you my sympathy.
> </ENTIRELYOFFTOPIC>
>
> But the argument that Ted had about a picture can tell more than a
> thousand words, I can only wholeheartedly agree with it. But for this to
> be true pictures need to be functional, not just ornament. If you want a
> terrible example, try: <http://www.epz.nl/>. This site is in Dutch, but
> this may be an advantage for you if you browse through it, because you
> won't have to actually read all the corporate BS. This is text, for your
> information, that is NOT content. Just blablabla. Images that are not
> content either, they're just there to look "good" which they don't.
>
> Background: EPZ is a utility in The Netherlands, an electricity producer
> (5 small to medium sized power plants). The company's annual turnover is
> the equivalent of about 1 milliard (!) US dollars, which is of course not
> entirely "nothing". I think they can do better presentation with that flow
> of money. You'll "get the picture" when you see this. BTW of course it is
> not exclusively Dutch, to build bad websites. Thank you all for your
> understanding.
>
> May I kindly direct the attention of this audience also to The Cluetrain?
> An interesting view on "new economy" and "e-commerce" related corporate
> mentality. See <http://cluetrain.com/>. Jump on that cluetrain, while you
> can!
>
> END-OF-RANT
>
> Cordially,
>
> Olav Lavell
> <mailto:olavell(at)xs4all.nl>
>
> --
> Credo: Be braver - you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps.
> Please support human rights and the work of Amnesty International.
> Worldwide <http://www.amnesty.org>, Dutch <http://www.amnesty.nl>.
>

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