Re: Start here

Jim:

I too would love to see the actual documentation to prove which browser
needs a DTD. Like I said, I changed the default in my copy of FrontPage to
reflect Fuzzy's "3.2"  but I freely admit, I can not see where it actually
accomplished much of anything.

On the other hand, it does not seem to have hurt anything either.

You said, in referring to my statement about FrontPage users setting the
program to only use features that would work in both browsers:

> I don't understand the either this or that mentality
>that this passage evidences. You can design perfectly >acceptable sites
using HTML 4.01
> Transitional with some CSS1.
>The only thing you would have to watch out
> for is to keep the CSS1 usage down to what does
>actually work in both
> browsers, but with experience that comes easily enough.

That's exactly what happens when you set FrontPage for both browsers. There
is nothing wrong with the experience you mention. The thing is  ...
FrontPage has the "experience" of dozens of HTML programmers already built
in. And unlike us, it never forgets.

The bottom line here is that we both are going for more or less the same
thing and both methods work.

"Academia" was my weak attempt of levity. I was simply referring to W3C as
opposed to the "standards" already built in to WYSIWYG editors.

In another thread that is running now, several people have expressed their
alarm and discomfort that other web authors are already designing strictly
for IE-4-5 and are forsaking other browsers.

I too share some of that alarm. However, as I mentioned a week or so ago,
this movement exists and is becoming more popular as weeks go by. Because of
commercial pressures, browser manufacturers are developing and IMPLEMENTING
standards faster than W3C.

Unfortunately, many firms, committees and individuals are still spending far
too much time complaining about Microsoft rather than taking care of
business. As a result, Microsoft's products continue to gain exponentially
in market share. Regardless of our concern, W3C does run the POSSIBLE risk
of becoming overshadowed as the vast consumer world makes their inevitable
decision.

And you can bet the farm that the consumers will make that decision based on
features and ease of use and as a group, they could care less whether the
"standard" is Microsoft or W3C. Just as long as it works and is easy to use.

Who among us can say with certainty whether another five years MAY see
Netscape, W3C, (and many of us), as statistically irrelevant as eight tracks
and WordStar.

Ironically, if this ever comes to pass, it would sure simplify our lives. At
last we could forget all the fuss over code and DTD's and concentrate on
content.

In fact, the FrontPage list I belong to, seems much closer to that point
now. And rarely does the subject of persons not able to view their pages,
ever come up.

Best wishes
Ted Temer
Temercraft Designs Redding, CA
temer(at)c-zone.net
www.temercraft.com/novels/
www.newsredding.com/
www.ramac-rc.org/

> > I guess it all depends on whether you want to stand firmly in the camp
of
> > academia -- or forsake everything for practicality and go out and buy a
copy
> > of FrontPage 2000--set it for BOTH Netscape and Internet Explorer and
never
> > look back, in the sure and certain knowledge that statistically, better
than
> > 90% of the surfers out there will see your site just fine.
>
> I don't understand the either this or that mentality that this passage
> evidences. You can design perfectly acceptable sites using HTML 4.01
> Transitional with some CSS1. The only thing you would have to watch out
> for is to keep the CSS1 usage down to what does actually work in both
> browsers, but with experience that comes easily enough.
>
> I do admit that I frequently use marginheight and marginwidth for
> Netscape 4.x browsers to remove the border from the browser canvas, and
> the wrap attribute for textarea to get the lines to wrap so customers
> can see everything they are typing,  but those are about the only
> extensions that I use to the standards.  And, in fact, I could do
> without them.
>
> So why is the question posed as being between academia or forsaking
> everything??

> Jim Tom Polk -:- jtpolk(at)texas.net -:- http://camalott.com/~jtpolk/
> ''You might as well fall flat on your face as
>   lean over too far backwards.''      --James Thurber--
>    "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three
>           elements: energy, matter and enlightened self-interest."
>   - G'Kar  "Survivors"
>

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