XHTML 2.0 and "br" (was XHTML 1.0 validator at W3C)

Dear all,

Just read the draft spec for XHTML 2.0, and guess what?

The "br" element has been deprecated. What a surprise.

This is a direct recognition of the question (see original emails down
below): I'm surprised that the "br" element is part of the Strict DTD, as
it's surely presentation markup.

The new "line" element is it's semantic replacement and suits concept of a
structured line of text well (whether that text is rendered as a line
separated from other lines by a line break or not).

It's also good to see the "p" element now containing other elements as the
universe intended.

Warm regards,
Josh.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ineke van der Maat" <inekemaa(at)xs4all.nl>
To: "Joshua Graham" <JoshuaGraham(at)grahamis.com>; <hwg-xml(at)hwg.org>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: XHTML 1.0 validator at W3C


> Hello Joshua,
>
> In Dutch ist is more usual as in English or American to write long
> paragraphs with many line breaks. (see Dutch books)
>  For all the other reasons I use the clear-, pading-top- or
> padding -bottomproperty  or still others in a stylesheet. It has also no
> presentationfunction in my eyes but  is the only (practical) way to break
a
> line. I found this in my studymaterial:
>
> TO INSERT A LINE BREAK:
> <br />
>
> Note: the <br /> tag is NOT for inserting blank lines, only for breaking
the
> current line of text. Blank lines should be inserted using CSS only!
>
> Greetings
> Ineke van der Maat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Graham" <JoshuaGraham(at)grahamis.com>
> To: <hwg-xml(at)hwg.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: XHTML 1.0 validator at W3C
>
>
> > Sorry, Jesse, I'm not convinced that does anything but prove my point.
> >
> > There's nothing to say the thing we call a "paragraph" should appear as
a
> > block of text with at least one (usually two, for easier reading) new
> lines.
> > A paragraph was invented to group ideas in the text and allow the reader
> to
> > step from one logical (one hopes) piece of reasoning to the next.
> Therefore,
> > the "p" element is definately semantic in nature.
> >
> > If, for semantic reasons, I was indicating that a block of text was a
> > "subsection of [the] current paragraph", as you suggest, then I would
not
> be
> > using an empty element. Perhaps <psub>text</psub> or
> > <subsection>text</subsection>.
> >
> > The very fact that the "br" element is called "line break" is explicitly
> > saying what the document should 'look' like when rendered - that is,
> "break
> > the line here". The "br" is therefore for layout only.
> >
> > One of the major reasons for XHTML is to remove all presentational
markup
> > and replace it "with some stylesheet work", as you say.
> >
> > Nevertheless, it's there and I'm sure it will be there for a while. I
was
> > just wondering if there was a compelling reason why it was in the Strict
> > DTD.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Josh.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jesse Houwing" <j.houwing(at)student.utwente.nl>
> > To: "Joshua Graham" <JoshuaGraham(at)grahamis.com>
> > Cc: <hwg-xml(at)hwg.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: XHTML 1.0 validator at W3C
> >
> >
> > > Joshua Graham wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'm surprised that the "br" element is part of the Strict DTD then,
as
> > it's
> > > >surely presentation markup.
> > > >
> > > >I tried to see if it was discussed in the HTML list at w3c but their
> > search
> > > >wasn't working. Does anyone know why it was included or an argument
as
> to
> > > >how it's somehow semantic and not for just presentation purposes?
> > > >
> > > You could have written the above text as follows (note the missing
empty
> > > line) :
> > >
 > > >I'm surprised that the "br" element is part of the Strict DTD then, as
> > it's
> > > >surely presentation markup.
> > > >I tried to see if it was discussed in the HTML list at w3c but their
> > search
> > > >wasn't working. Does anyone know why it was included or an argument
as
> to
> > > >how it's somehow semantic and not for just presentation purposes?
> > > >
> > > In that case you would've used the <br> instead if the <P> to show
that
> > > not a new paragraph but a new subsection of you current paragraph has
> > > started.
> > >
> > > I know it is possible to do this with some stylesheet work, but the
<br>
> > > would be the right piece of code to use.
> > >
> > > Jesse
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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